The Beef Cattle Health and Nutrition Podcast

[john_campbell]: bart welcome to the podcast thanks for
being here

[bart_lardner]: thank you john glad to join you

[john_campbell]: well maybe we could start off by
having you tell your the audience a little

[john_campbell]: bit about yourself and your background

[bart_lardner]: yeah for sure well born and raised
in british columbia and on a mixed farm

[bart_lardner]: in southern b c and then up
in northern b c so how to an

[bart_lardner]: exposure to dairy and cropping and cow
calf and certainly worked in the industry

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: for many years so i got to
know the feed lot and cow calf and

[bart_lardner]: ranching industries and came out here in
nineteen eighty four and the university scotchman and

[bart_lardner]: now i'm a professor here in the
department of animal poto science and my area

[bart_lardner]: focus is applied cow calf and forage
systems

[john_campbell]: great

[bart_lardner]: it

[john_campbell]: um maybe tell us a little bit
about the l f c e that the

[john_campbell]: livestock and fort center of excellence that's
where you do a lot of your work

[john_campbell]: so what what's that facility like that's
part of our research

[bart_lardner]: right

[john_campbell]: infrastructure here at the university of suscatchuan

[bart_lardner]: yeah yeah well prior to that i
was at lantagain suscotchan with an organization called

[bart_lardner]: western beef development center and so a
lot of well talk about here today is

[bart_lardner]: based on a lot of that work
that was done gansascotchan but in twenty eight

[bart_lardner]: team we're very lucky to be part
of the transition to a new a new

[bart_lardner]: model called livestock for center of excellence
and in that model is

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: multi discipline so we can do feed
a lot metabolism work animal health work but

[bart_lardner]: also we can do cowcalfgrazing work and
our new location at clovetsa scotchman is just

[bart_lardner]: wonderful in that a lot of that
land has never seen a beef cow and

[bart_lardner]: so a great opportunity to you know
to do sing research or winter grazing research

[bart_lardner]: and and measure lots of different phases
and lots of different impacts on the land

[bart_lardner]: and opportunities and so that's the exciting
part yeah

[john_campbell]: oh so one of your major areas
researches

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: is extensive grazing systems and those

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: systems are really all about trying to
extend the grazing season season as far as

[john_campbell]: possible and they become pretty popular over
the last decade or so certainly

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: my career here at the university over
the years that we see that a lot

[john_campbell]: more

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: what's the reason behind that right and
popularity

[bart_lardner]: well it's interesting in that the era
that maybe you and i grew up we

[bart_lardner]: basically dry lot fit our cow calf
pairs coming off of summer past year all

[bart_lardner]: the way through winter in fact they
caved in those same pens i remember that

[bart_lardner]: in the in the

[john_campbell]: ye

[bart_lardner]: seventies eighties and nineties but you know
it was the early two thousand or maybe

[bart_lardner]: late nineteen nineties that we saw

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: these new

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: opportunities are ways of managing that pregnant
beef cow and i think the whole mentality

[bart_lardner]: was that our herds were managed in
those early decades like a european method with

[bart_lardner]: a and or facility where we kept
them in confinement then we you know realized

[bart_lardner]: that

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: maybe there's some opportunity here maybe we
can have them go to to a site

[bart_lardner]: a nut deficiency sit on the farm
of the ranch

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: and a grow the bio mass and
be graze the cattle out there and it

[bart_lardner]: was what what drove this i think
was economic john it was you know the

[bart_lardner]: cost in put costs of facilities yardage
costs paid paid labor all we're looking at

[bart_lardner]: ways aid to extend the grazing season
to three sixty five days a year and

[bart_lardner]: b to maybe look at reducing feed
costs precoperdy

[john_campbell]: right and we know that winter feed
costs especially here in canada are are

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: often the number one cost for sort
of maintaining a cow over the year two

[bart_lardner]: absolutely i mean worked by kathy lars
and their colleague beef economists showing that that

[bart_lardner]: that's a significant amount of the annual
cost to keep a cow probably ranging from

[bart_lardner]: sixty to seventy per cent of the
annual cost to keep that cow is is

[bart_lardner]: to put

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: up winter feed stocks and so if
if we can you know reduce the harvesting

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: the hauling the trucking cost that's a
good thing

[john_campbell]: so what are some of the various
strategies that we see producers using there's more

[john_campbell]: than there's more than one way to
skin a cat here so how do they

[john_campbell]: do that

[bart_lardner]: yeah yeah it's interesting uh you know
producers are really good at looking at opportunity

[bart_lardner]: and just trying to to utilize forages
longer quicker so and we're off and and

[bart_lardner]: they're in their program

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: in a nutshell

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: it's looking at what are the forages
available we talk about perennial annual forages is

[bart_lardner]: there some way to preserve them in
the field hopefully under the snow blanket or

[bart_lardner]: maybe in some different form and yes
there is so

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: there's there's systems like bell grazing stock
pa ford swath grazing utilizing crop residues or

[bart_lardner]: maybe grazing a warm season crop all
of those and i've always told producers do

[bart_lardner]: your research you know do your home
work before you adopt those systems because maybe

[bart_lardner]: they're not the best strategy for ever
you live and we see that so you

[bart_lardner]: know look at which one might work
for you a start small you know don't

[bart_lardner]: don't go in a whole hog and
have your entire

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: winter grazing program on that one system
because we found many times mother nature will

[bart_lardner]: not co operate with you so you
know have plan be or maybe and c

[bart_lardner]: in your back pocket

[john_campbell]: that's good advice

[bart_lardner]: oh yeah

[john_campbell]: what

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: are some of the factors so let's
say a producer is looking at trying to

[john_campbell]: extend their grazing season in some one
of these fashions what's some of the factors

[john_campbell]: that they have to consider if they're
going to implement that m

[bart_lardner]: well first of all you would decide
on what crop you're going to grow now

[bart_lardner]: usually they're looking at an annual forward
to extend the grazing season typically you know

[bart_lardner]: one that's going to hold its quality
well into the fall of winter months us

[bart_lardner]: secondly where are they going to do
it is there an acre or a field

[bart_lardner]: or somewhere on their farm and their
ranch that maybe it was going to benefit

[bart_lardner]: from the nutrients that are going to
be deposited

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: also as well the big thing is
is when they're out there these cows are

[bart_lardner]: out there in those you know minus
sub zero temperatures wind protection is whole is

[bart_lardner]: huge huge issue and so we know
that you know many times natural shelter belts

[bart_lardner]: maybe not there because they've cleared all
the land an they're goin t grow those

[bart_lardner]: cash crops so if there's not bush
or natural shelter belt then there has to

[bart_lardner]: some type of portable um m portable
wind break set up the other thing i

[bart_lardner]: mentioned as well is make sure you've
you've looked at what your water point is

[bart_lardner]: going to be or your winter watering
system you know i mean some times yes

[bart_lardner]: we can train cows to snow graze
but that has to be a early adoption

[bart_lardner]: that has to be done prior to
getting really cold i've had producers foma from

[bart_lardner]: manitoba where she was trying to ask
her cows to snow graze that was middle

[bart_lardner]: of january sub zero and there was
tremendous vocalization going on and so i just

[bart_lardner]: said no you need to stop this
bring them back to the to the lot

[bart_lardner]: or to the water bowl and then
you just just get them adapted prior to

[bart_lardner]: that that the cool weather setting in
they know that that's no has to be

[bart_lardner]: a good you know good depth fluffy
snow not crusted for them to pick up

[bart_lardner]: on that snow snow grazing option the
other thing that we really strive to manage

[bart_lardner]: a monitor body condition and many times
and i just chatted with some us ranchers

[bart_lardner]: last week they go on a scale
of one to nine we go on a

[bart_lardner]: scale of one to five here in
canada you know those cows coming into that

[bart_lardner]: winter grazing system out of about three
out of a five on that us you

[bart_lardner]: know five out of a nine scale
and maintain body condition so your winter winter

[bart_lardner]: program and they're not going to lose
condition we don't want them thin coming into

[bart_lardner]: cabin and ideally you know you can
pelpate that body condition coming in the fault

[bart_lardner]: prior to that winter winter grazing program
and just make sure they're gong to maintain

[bart_lardner]: in that that winter grazing system is
going to provide adequate nutrients going forward

[john_campbell]: yes i think it's not really a
downside but it's one of the big issues

[john_campbell]: i think that i've seen in some
herds that try extended grazing is that they

[john_campbell]: can they can lose sight of body
condition because the cows aren't in the yard

[john_campbell]: quite as easily access

[bart_lardner]: correct

[john_campbell]: and and they have to watch that
carefully make sure that make sure they're maintaining

[john_campbell]: that not getting behind what

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: about what about mineral and take while
you're doing that part is that an issue

[john_campbell]: sometimes

[bart_lardner]: oh absolutely and then in my mind
the producers should strive to provide

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: additional trace mineral supplement year around but
specifically you know we want to insure that

[bart_lardner]: these calls are in first second third
trimeter pregnancy that there's adequate know micro micro

[bart_lardner]: mineral in take you know some of
our crops for example some of the warm

[bart_lardner]: season annuals for example corn may be
very high and phospheracence provision of a good

[bart_lardner]: clfostratio three three to one greater is
important and certainly you know those trace minds

[bart_lardner]: copper zinc and manganese need to be
there because there's other things that might impact

[bart_lardner]: not just the feed or the forge
the basic fords that the cows are grazing

[bart_lardner]: but possibly you know the water qual
ty and things like that

[john_campbell]: yes and you may need to monitor
intakes as well because if they're out on

[john_campbell]: extended grazing system not all cows are
necessarily going to be eating that free choice

[john_campbell]: mineral

[bart_lardner]: absolutely you know and it is it
is important and what we tend to do

[bart_lardner]: for sure you're going to you're going
a allocate you so many ounces three ounces

[bart_lardner]: four ounces head per day and you
know if you don't want to continuously fill

[bart_lardner]: up the mineral tub because there are
some cows that will have greater intakes and

[bart_lardner]: others you might put out you know
so much mineral save for a week and

[bart_lardner]: then if it's gone after four days
then you would only go back after seven

[bart_lardner]: days and fill it up again for
sure you know everybody is going to have

[bart_lardner]: that adequate intake but certainly managing monitor
in the same with body conditions scoring if

[bart_lardner]: there's some way for you walk through
your cows you know they're all haired up

[bart_lardner]: and so it is hard look at
fat cover but you know you're out there

[bart_lardner]: providing mineral or maybe checking your winter
watering system just take that time to walk

[bart_lardner]: through everybody uh and ensure that they're
not losing condition

[john_campbell]: that's good advice

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: i just want to go back to
the the snow as a water source thing

[john_campbell]: for one quick second before we move
on

[bart_lardner]: sure

[john_campbell]: i mean it's important to have a
up for that as well right part because

[john_campbell]: the snow may disappear or it may
ice over things like that and and so

[john_campbell]: you've got to have a plan be
if you're going to rely on that obviously

[john_campbell]: you have to train the cows and
all those other things that you mentioned but

[john_campbell]: you need to plan b as well

[bart_lardner]: well absolutely and now now that we're
talking about watering in the winter like i

[bart_lardner]: said make sure it's deep fluffy snow
crested over i like to suggest that that

[bart_lardner]: that's snow grazing area is set apart
from where the actual feed is being located

[bart_lardner]: because of the trampling soiling effect

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: you wanted to be fresh clean snow
um we really want to get away from

[bart_lardner]: from chopping holes in the ice john
and and you know too many times we've

[bart_lardner]: seen that that loss of animal falling
through the ice and so there are really

[bart_lardner]: good winter watering systems out there insulated
water troughs um you know that are heated

[bart_lardner]: by with thermal heating and you know
many times producers can look for different sub

[bart_lardner]: city programs through provincial or local

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: organization say

[john_campbell]: ye

[bart_lardner]: half to one third the cost

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: they really official and

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: so we're

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: in the business right now trying to
set those up at livestock for center of

[bart_lardner]: excellence because you know we're going to
show case extensive grazing we need to show

[bart_lardner]: case these these water points well

[john_campbell]: yeah there's lots of options there and
there's been several funding programs subsidy programs lately

[john_campbell]: to sort of allow producers to invest
in those and give them some money back

[john_campbell]: on that so that you know that's
something to explore in you area and i

[john_campbell]: think may be some of that's turning
over with a new cap program but

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: but there may be new programs coming
up soon to

[bart_lardner]: yeah they're all part of what they
call best management practices so b m p

[bart_lardner]: you know it's interesting i just met
with the ministry people here a couple of

[bart_lardner]: weeks ago all the extension folks forage
and livestock folks and that's his front and

[bart_lardner]: center was the conversation about extensive grazing
and trying to do it correctly trying to

[bart_lardner]: have minimal impact you know in terms
of loading and minimal impact on on run

[bart_lardner]: off and all these types of things
and so like i say do do your

[bart_lardner]: research do your home work and then
work with these these knowledgeable people that are

[bart_lardner]: out there before you set up that
extensive grazing system

[john_campbell]: right and you may have neighbors or
somebody else who's also been at it for

[john_campbell]: a while that may be able to
give you good vice as well as some

[john_campbell]: of the extension people to one of
the big benefits of the extensive grazing system

[john_campbell]: is that we have the cows out
there actually fertilizing these wintering sites with manure

[john_campbell]: rather than us having to collect it
and spread it and you've done some research

[john_campbell]: on forage yields

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: and on cattle wintering sites tell us
a little about those results

[bart_lardner]: you know i think in

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: the first work we did over twenty
years ago we set it

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: up actually we pushed the envelope pretty
hard on this one and we had pretty

[bart_lardner]: high you know stock density the per
acre if you want to call it that

[bart_lardner]: but we were looking at the advantages
or opportunities of manure nutrient deposition specifically nitrate

[bart_lardner]: and ammonium nitrogen and phosphorus only about
ten percent of the n is retained going

[bart_lardner]: through the ruminant dit esta system so
there's lots of excreetment and only about twenty

[bart_lardner]: per cent of the phosphorus and so
you know where those cattle are throughout the

[bart_lardner]: fallow winter months here's going to be
opportunity to leave those nutrients behind and for

[bart_lardner]: the subsequent crop the next year with
our first study we did have a very

[bart_lardner]: high stock density

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: eight hundred cow days per acre on
a bale graze system but we also looked

[bart_lardner]: at the op ortunity maybe comparing the
manure deposited by the animals out there on

[bart_lardner]: that extensive system compared to what a
producer might might move his dry lot manure

[bart_lardner]: with equipment say attract and manures better
and you know the big thing about some

[bart_lardner]: of these nutrients specifically nitrogen it's very
mobile at it leaches out vilatalize you know

[bart_lardner]: so not it's not a stationary nutrient
and so maybe in that dry lot drop

[bart_lardner]: pack a lot of that n is
gone after two or three or six months

[bart_lardner]: and maybe not there for that crop
or on that field you spread it with

[bart_lardner]: that with that tract or manure spread
or so the big thing we found was

[bart_lardner]: that when the cows were out there
we did so test preimpost so test levels

[bart_lardner]: of nitrogen of phosphorus and it was
really interesting to the two to three fold

[bart_lardner]: increase in nitrogen where those cows grade
is compared to where we put them anywhere

[bart_lardner]: on with equipment and so what we're
capturing there is the yeurnuran nitrogen so that's

[bart_lardner]: a huge opportunity and if that field
is going to be a pasture say with

[bart_lardner]: a lot of grass species that grass
loves in we did see you know two

[bart_lardner]: and a half three times increase in
bile mass where those cows wintered and it

[bart_lardner]: could be a swath graze program could
be a ball graze program so that is

[bart_lardner]: that's an advantage you know i did
i did mention we we had a pretty

[bart_lardner]: high stock density on that and so
we backed off and made some we felt

[bart_lardner]: you know reasonable implications on where producers
should have you know maybe two hundred fifty

[bart_lardner]: maybe three hundred codes or not that
eight hundred it was just too high a

[bart_lardner]: stock density soap and in my mind
it's just the right number of cows too

[bart_lardner]: few you're going to have too much
sorting and you're going to have too much

[bart_lardner]: wastage you just have to have the
right amount where they're god go in and

[bart_lardner]: and and you know there's not going
to be a challenge on intake everyays going

[bart_lardner]: get their share but they're goin na
you're trying to manage you know left over

[bart_lardner]: residue ah

[john_campbell]: and and talk about sort of the
importance of electric fencing

[bart_lardner]: ye

[john_campbell]: and some of those systems

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: to sort of

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: manage manage intake

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: how do you use that

[bart_lardner]: well you know and i do mentioned
this all the time when i talked to

[bart_lardner]: produce groups and that you have those
folks that really use electric fencing as a

[bart_lardner]: tool to manage utilizing tion and fresh
allocation and residue then there are some folks

[bart_lardner]: that just have an aversion to fencing
and that's that's fair not everybody likes to

[bart_lardner]: get out there but we've you know
in all of our work we've we've come

[bart_lardner]: to suggest maybe give a fresh allocation
say three to four days worth of new

[bart_lardner]: grazing it's kind of based on all
of the research we've done on those systems

[bart_lardner]: i mentioned previously and you know i
mean i've seen producers go seven days i've

[bart_lardner]: seen producers go three weeks and pros
and cons with that sometimes if they feel

[bart_lardner]: it's working great then adjust it we're
saying you know three to four days the

[bart_lardner]: cattle gonna get out there gonna get
adequate nutriteintake and then by day three the

[bart_lardner]: back end of the third day maybe
they're getting a little bit five or ten

[bart_lardner]: then we would like to see but
certainly that fresh application is coming again after

[bart_lardner]: that third day or fourth day also
the big thing we find to is you

[bart_lardner]: start out with that in mind then
when it gets colder you need to be

[bart_lardner]: managing a monitoring and so when it
gets to that minus twenty or twenty five

[bart_lardner]: with that wind chill factor then we're
going to have to move that fence quicker

[bart_lardner]: soon or more often and you know
so may be down to a two day

[bart_lardner]: move or something like that

[john_campbell]: those cows are definitely going to eat
more once once

[bart_lardner]: correct

[john_campbell]: the cold weather starts i've heard of
this term nutrient cycling so can

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: you tell me what that refers to
what what this nutrient cycling mean

[bart_lardner]: well you know it's it's interesting john
the and the other buzz word right now

[bart_lardner]: it's regenerative egg and in my mind
it goes back to lay farming from europe

[bart_lardner]: and that the beef cow or the
ruminant there a small room large large ruminants

[bart_lardner]: are great up cyclers and they're great
utilizing very low quality of high fiber for

[bart_lardner]: ages and so if there's some way
we can have that ruminant on that acre

[bart_lardner]: of land utilizing the basal forage and
as we just talked about depositing those manure

[bart_lardner]: nutrients from faces or from erin in
a recycling fashion you know and that's just

[bart_lardner]: that just reduces our in puts purchased
inorganic sources which are very very costly in

[bart_lardner]: twenty twenty two and so what's also
interesting is you know many of the cash

[bart_lardner]: cropping systems is just in high in
puts and in high exports off that same

[bart_lardner]: acer of land and we've done some
work looking at a utilizing crop residues whether

[bart_lardner]: it's you know a cash crop or
maybe an annual serial crop you know grazing

[bart_lardner]: the straw and chaff and following the
combine if you like and you know the

[bart_lardner]: benefits of the animal out there utilizing
that that residues from that cash crop and

[bart_lardner]: leaving those nutrients behind are certainly you
know very real

[john_campbell]: yeah one of the other systems that
we see a lot more and has become

[john_campbell]: more common in many parts of canada
over the last few years is corn

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: grazing what are some of the management
considerations that a producer has to take into

[john_campbell]: account they're considering using whole corn grazing

[bart_lardner]: well i guess with all of these
systems i first of all say feed test

[bart_lardner]: fed test feed test so know what
you're starting with you know if you're short

[bart_lardner]: on energy or protein then you need
to have to bring in a supplement um

[bart_lardner]: no corn is an interesting story you
know we first saw some of those producers

[bart_lardner]: growing at be over twenty years ago
now i always look south to nebraska north

[bart_lardner]: dakota and of course our manitoba friends
and

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: they were growing corn because they were
getting adequate heat units and so what the

[bart_lardner]: companies ave done as they've selected these
low heat unit varieties ones that will actually

[bart_lardner]: grow pretty good yield anywhere across the
western canada specifically and so we see corn

[bart_lardner]: growing and grand para berta out in
vanderhoof b c you

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: know all the way down to swift
current to catch so it is because we've

[bart_lardner]: gone from those early varieties of three
thousand heat units down to san ten hundred

[bart_lardner]: and so yeah

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: what are the advantages is because you
know the cost of land has gone up

[bart_lardner]: and if producers can grow increase bowl
mass on that acre of land compacompared to

[bart_lardner]: say your annual serials your barley or
oats obviously they're goin to look at corn

[bart_lardner]: now one thing we've seen with growing
corn you know especially to other other areas

[bart_lardner]: previous as they would take the grain
leave the stocks and so corn stock is

[bart_lardner]: actually a really good low cost way
of extending the grazing season for cows in

[bart_lardner]: first or maybe a second trymetrpregnancy you
do have to supplement if you're grating just

[bart_lardner]: those corn stacks now what we see
happening in the last fifteen plus years is

[bart_lardner]: that producers are adapting to whole plant
corn raising and so you know taking advantage

[bart_lardner]: of of that cob and the rest
of the corn structures and so there's some

[bart_lardner]: some some prose and cause cans with
doing that that producers need to be aware

[bart_lardner]: of

[john_campbell]: yeah so so corn grazing whole corn
grazing like that they really need to limit

[john_campbell]: the grazing area that's a that's a
key factor for that so that they consume

[john_campbell]: the entire plant and not just cobs
i take it

[bart_lardner]: absolutely you know

[john_campbell]: ye

[bart_lardner]: and i talk about this to our
us

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: neighbors or maybe to our eastern neighbors
and they go oh well you know we

[bart_lardner]: never really thought of that but you
know what our winters get colder here dry

[bart_lardner]: cold and so we might we may
be low on energy if they're just utilizing

[bart_lardner]: those crop residues so certainly grazing the
whole plant is opportunistic but cowsive selected and

[bart_lardner]: they will go out there and they
will sort off the cops first and so

[bart_lardner]: that's what we're saying sure with his
corn grazing system whole plant core grazing system

[bart_lardner]: only allocate that three day maybe four
day a fresh grazing because the first twenty

[bart_lardner]: four hours are gon t go out
there and sort those cobs is going to

[bart_lardner]: be a tremendous intake of starch and
so hence we see you know signs of

[bart_lardner]: sub cute ruminasadosis or digestive upset and
i've had you know veterinarians film from other

[bart_lardner]: parts of suscatcansaying bart i got a
producer they have forty acres of corn

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: and there's ten cows down and you
know five are not doing well and five

[bart_lardner]: with burned out ruins because they didn't
limit graze

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: and and they do got into erect
that way so we feel with that three

[bart_lardner]: to four days

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: they're gonna you know obviously take the
ice cream part of the plant first and

[bart_lardner]: then they two and three they'll have
to back raise and the stock and stover

[bart_lardner]: and have that fiber intake

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: so those digestive disturbances

[bart_lardner]: a

[john_campbell]: like grain overload or maybe less less
severe sub clinic lassidosis that that is

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: that is a concern what about naive
cows that have never grazed the stuff is

[john_campbell]: that that change things

[bart_lardner]: oh absolutely and you know i always
say any of these systems whether it's bell

[bart_lardner]: grazing or corn grazing the producer has
to get comfortable with it and the cows

[bart_lardner]: have to get comfortable with it especially
if they've been managed

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: previously save with a feed wagon and
equipment and all of a sudden we're turning

[bart_lardner]: them out into a field with a
whole plant standing corn and saying you know

[bart_lardner]: go at it and some of that
work we did atlantic and it was funny

[bart_lardner]: to see the naive cows they grazed
all the dead grass along the fence line

[bart_lardner]: and around the posts and then about
a day later somebody walked over and took

[bart_lardner]: a bite and go this isn't too
bad and so it was kind of a

[bart_lardner]: leader follower and then everybody else jumped
in and all of a sudden we're off

[bart_lardner]: to the race as everybody was grazing
corn so and i think you need to

[bart_lardner]: you have to learn how

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: far can you push our animals to
clean up uh you know certainly different varieties

[bart_lardner]: of corn will be more palatable than
others the big thing the last structure has

[bart_lardner]: left is typically the stocks and you
know sometimes there will be less stocks and

[bart_lardner]: more stocks depending on the corn variety
so i've seen cows just do a really

[bart_lardner]: good bang up job of maybe leaving
less than ten percent residue other fields with

[bart_lardner]: maybe thirty percent residue so a lot
of things to consider is that your your

[bart_lardner]: herd has to get used to this
tim going forward

[john_campbell]: so there's a lot more biamassk with
corn but there's more input

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: costs to do the economics still work
out part

[bart_lardner]: well you know i mean you're paying
for that technology you're paying for the round

[bart_lardner]: up ready variety um you know i've
seen producers that have used cows to graze

[bart_lardner]: it and they've had a bad year
and once bit for every shy what they

[bart_lardner]: will do then is they'll grow the
corn and put it up a savage and

[bart_lardner]: then they'll maybe come back and they'll
just graze the you know the stocks or

[bart_lardner]: something whatever is left after this silaging
so you know it i think the advantage

[bart_lardner]: of corn is still um

[john_campbell]: yes

[bart_lardner]: the three to four fold increase and
yield per acre come compared to maybe older

[bart_lardner]: barley but the other thing too is
that we've seen some of the early recommendations

[bart_lardner]: for mineral are sorry for fertility and
put change in fact i've seen producers you

[bart_lardner]: know gold corn on corn on corn
on corn for five or six years and

[bart_lardner]: they're not having to put any fertility
in because the manure is there for the

[bart_lardner]: next year's crop so that real advantage
as

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: well

[john_campbell]: right that's the big advantage of grazing
rather than silo to some extent

[bart_lardner]: correct

[john_campbell]: i guess if you grace the crop
residue though you're going to get some of

[john_campbell]: those benefits to

[bart_lardner]: the other thing i've seen too is
sometimes the

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: corn will get ahead of you and
you don't want to go to black layer

[bart_lardner]: that's pretty mature grain then you'll get
into that we talked about digestive upset so

[bart_lardner]: now make sure it's that half milk
line of that first killing frost and you

[bart_lardner]: should be able to manage that fifty
percent starch and fifty percent fiber and take

[bart_lardner]: is kind of what i suggest where
they should be with your with your cows

[bart_lardner]: out there

[john_campbell]: okay and we talked about the you
know feed testing an episode one with

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: with john mc kinnon and

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: obviously testing swash or grazing corn is
little trickier to

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: sort of get a representative sample then
then a sort of conventional feed source that

[john_campbell]: we might have bales in a yard
or something like that

[bart_lardner]: yeah you know it is and always

[john_campbell]: yes

[bart_lardner]: i've always had that question to you
know what i suggest is if they want

[bart_lardner]: we always take if you want to
look at quality and yield you take seventeen

[bart_lardner]: and a half feet a row and
that's equivalent to one one thou seven acre

[bart_lardner]: or so um you know just go
out there and harvest at it is a

[bart_lardner]: lot of sample because it's more than
say just an annual zero crop and then

[bart_lardner]: you know you can chop it up
wood choppers awe seen people used to just

[bart_lardner]: get that sample to to you know
a form where you can submit it to

[bart_lardner]: a lab the

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: other thing we've seen with wet years
is maybe evidence mold so that too has

[bart_lardner]: been a concern but you know certainly
we haven't seen that lately

[john_campbell]: no that's not been a problem at
least

[bart_lardner]: no

[john_campbell]: in western canada but

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: may be in other parts so maybe
just to wrap up do you want to

[john_campbell]: would you mind summarizing some of the
key points that the producers might

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: want to consider they're thinking about implementing
one of these extensive grazing strategies to extend

[john_campbell]: the grazing season

[bart_lardner]: sure absolutely i think the first thing
i always

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: tell them is start small so don't
go seeding the whole quarter section to that

[bart_lardner]: crop if it's corn or maybe you
know

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: setting out bales for a whole order
sex start small so maybe ten acres you

[bart_lardner]: know and and if it works for
you then you can slowly expand uh you

[bart_lardner]: know as i say it's going to
take a while to wean off using equipment

[bart_lardner]: to feed your cows and have the
cows walk to that field do your home

[bart_lardner]: work talk to your neighbors talk to
the you know the reps that are out

[bart_lardner]: there and your nutrition ist maybe choose
a site where it's going to benefit from

[bart_lardner]: the deposition of manure nutrient maybe anutrit
deficient no area on your farm and your

[bart_lardner]: ranch be sure there's good wind protection
that's that's huge today with with animal welfare

[bart_lardner]: and and thnkrethink

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: your water source out there and you
know do your feed test for sure you

[bart_lardner]: know protein can get a little low
for cows close to calving especially on a

[bart_lardner]: corn crop whole plant corn crop so
you know make sure you do the fee

[bart_lardner]: test pay attention and protean you might
have to for sure um you know bring

[bart_lardner]: in a good mineral package as well
and and absolutely make sure you have planned

[bart_lardner]: be in your back pocket because mother
nature is not going to work with you

[bart_lardner]: every year

[john_campbell]: as good advice part thank you so
much for doing this today i'm sure we'll

[john_campbell]: have you back on to talk about
some of your other projects and and some

[john_campbell]: of your other interests really appreciate you
doing this thank you

[bart_lardner]: well thank you john thanks

[john_campbell]: a

[bart_lardner]: for having me