Extended grazing systems with Dr. Bart Lardner

Dr. Bart Lardner from the University of Saskatchewan, Dept. of Animal and Poultry Science joins me to discuss the important factors to consider when utilizing extended grazing management systems such as bale grazing, swath grazing or whole corn grazing

[john_campbell]: bart welcome to the podcast thanks for
being here

[bart_lardner]: thank you john glad to join you

[john_campbell]: well maybe we could start off by
having you tell your the audience a little

[john_campbell]: bit about yourself and your background

[bart_lardner]: yeah for sure well born and raised
in british columbia and on a mixed farm

[bart_lardner]: in southern b c and then up
in northern b c so how to an

[bart_lardner]: exposure to dairy and cropping and cow
calf and certainly worked in the industry

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: for many years so i got to
know the feed lot and cow calf and

[bart_lardner]: ranching industries and came out here in
nineteen eighty four and the university scotchman and

[bart_lardner]: now i'm a professor here in the
department of animal poto science and my area

[bart_lardner]: focus is applied cow calf and forage

[john_campbell]: great

[bart_lardner]: it

[john_campbell]: um maybe tell us a little bit
about the l f c e that the

[john_campbell]: livestock and fort center of excellence that's
where you do a lot of your work

[john_campbell]: so what what's that facility like that's
part of our research

[bart_lardner]: right

[john_campbell]: infrastructure here at the university of suscatchuan

[bart_lardner]: yeah yeah well prior to that i
was at lantagain suscotchan with an organization called

[bart_lardner]: western beef development center and so a
lot of well talk about here today is

[bart_lardner]: based on a lot of that work
that was done gansascotchan but in twenty eight

[bart_lardner]: team we're very lucky to be part
of the transition to a new a new

[bart_lardner]: model called livestock for center of excellence
and in that model is

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: multi discipline so we can do feed
a lot metabolism work animal health work but

[bart_lardner]: also we can do cowcalfgrazing work and
our new location at clovetsa scotchman is just

[bart_lardner]: wonderful in that a lot of that
land has never seen a beef cow and

[bart_lardner]: so a great opportunity to you know
to do sing research or winter grazing research

[bart_lardner]: and and measure lots of different phases
and lots of different impacts on the land

[bart_lardner]: and opportunities and so that's the exciting
part yeah

[john_campbell]: oh so one of your major areas

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: is extensive grazing systems and those

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: systems are really all about trying to
extend the grazing season season as far as

[john_campbell]: possible and they become pretty popular over
the last decade or so certainly

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: my career here at the university over
the years that we see that a lot

[john_campbell]: more

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: what's the reason behind that right and

[bart_lardner]: well it's interesting in that the era
that maybe you and i grew up we

[bart_lardner]: basically dry lot fit our cow calf
pairs coming off of summer past year all

[bart_lardner]: the way through winter in fact they
caved in those same pens i remember that

[bart_lardner]: in the in the

[john_campbell]: ye

[bart_lardner]: seventies eighties and nineties but you know
it was the early two thousand or maybe

[bart_lardner]: late nineteen nineties that we saw

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: these new

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: opportunities are ways of managing that pregnant
beef cow and i think the whole mentality

[bart_lardner]: was that our herds were managed in
those early decades like a european method with

[bart_lardner]: a and or facility where we kept
them in confinement then we you know realized

[bart_lardner]: that

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: maybe there's some opportunity here maybe we
can have them go to to a site

[bart_lardner]: a nut deficiency sit on the farm
of the ranch

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: and a grow the bio mass and
be graze the cattle out there and it

[bart_lardner]: was what what drove this i think
was economic john it was you know the

[bart_lardner]: cost in put costs of facilities yardage
costs paid paid labor all we're looking at

[bart_lardner]: ways aid to extend the grazing season
to three sixty five days a year and

[bart_lardner]: b to maybe look at reducing feed
costs precoperdy

[john_campbell]: right and we know that winter feed
costs especially here in canada are are

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: often the number one cost for sort
of maintaining a cow over the year two

[bart_lardner]: absolutely i mean worked by kathy lars
and their colleague beef economists showing that that

[bart_lardner]: that's a significant amount of the annual
cost to keep a cow probably ranging from

[bart_lardner]: sixty to seventy per cent of the
annual cost to keep that cow is is

[bart_lardner]: to put

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: up winter feed stocks and so if
if we can you know reduce the harvesting

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: the hauling the trucking cost that's a
good thing

[john_campbell]: so what are some of the various
strategies that we see producers using there's more

[john_campbell]: than there's more than one way to
skin a cat here so how do they

[john_campbell]: do that

[bart_lardner]: yeah yeah it's interesting uh you know
producers are really good at looking at opportunity

[bart_lardner]: and just trying to to utilize forages
longer quicker so and we're off and and

[bart_lardner]: they're in their program

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: in a nutshell

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: it's looking at what are the forages
available we talk about perennial annual forages is

[bart_lardner]: there some way to preserve them in
the field hopefully under the snow blanket or

[bart_lardner]: maybe in some different form and yes
there is so

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: there's there's systems like bell grazing stock
pa ford swath grazing utilizing crop residues or

[bart_lardner]: maybe grazing a warm season crop all
of those and i've always told producers do

[bart_lardner]: your research you know do your home
work before you adopt those systems because maybe

[bart_lardner]: they're not the best strategy for ever
you live and we see that so you

[bart_lardner]: know look at which one might work
for you a start small you know don't

[bart_lardner]: don't go in a whole hog and
have your entire

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: winter grazing program on that one system
because we found many times mother nature will

[bart_lardner]: not co operate with you so you
know have plan be or maybe and c

[bart_lardner]: in your back pocket

[john_campbell]: that's good advice

[bart_lardner]: oh yeah

[john_campbell]: what

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: are some of the factors so let's
say a producer is looking at trying to

[john_campbell]: extend their grazing season in some one
of these fashions what's some of the factors

[john_campbell]: that they have to consider if they're
going to implement that m

[bart_lardner]: well first of all you would decide
on what crop you're going to grow now

[bart_lardner]: usually they're looking at an annual forward
to extend the grazing season typically you know

[bart_lardner]: one that's going to hold its quality
well into the fall of winter months us

[bart_lardner]: secondly where are they going to do
it is there an acre or a field

[bart_lardner]: or somewhere on their farm and their
ranch that maybe it was going to benefit

[bart_lardner]: from the nutrients that are going to
be deposited

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: also as well the big thing is
is when they're out there these cows are

[bart_lardner]: out there in those you know minus
sub zero temperatures wind protection is whole is

[bart_lardner]: huge huge issue and so we know
that you know many times natural shelter belts

[bart_lardner]: maybe not there because they've cleared all
the land an they're goin t grow those

[bart_lardner]: cash crops so if there's not bush
or natural shelter belt then there has to

[bart_lardner]: some type of portable um m portable
wind break set up the other thing i

[bart_lardner]: mentioned as well is make sure you've
you've looked at what your water point is

[bart_lardner]: going to be or your winter watering
system you know i mean some times yes

[bart_lardner]: we can train cows to snow graze
but that has to be a early adoption

[bart_lardner]: that has to be done prior to
getting really cold i've had producers foma from

[bart_lardner]: manitoba where she was trying to ask
her cows to snow graze that was middle

[bart_lardner]: of january sub zero and there was
tremendous vocalization going on and so i just

[bart_lardner]: said no you need to stop this
bring them back to the to the lot

[bart_lardner]: or to the water bowl and then
you just just get them adapted prior to

[bart_lardner]: that that the cool weather setting in
they know that that's no has to be

[bart_lardner]: a good you know good depth fluffy
snow not crusted for them to pick up

[bart_lardner]: on that snow snow grazing option the
other thing that we really strive to manage

[bart_lardner]: a monitor body condition and many times
and i just chatted with some us ranchers

[bart_lardner]: last week they go on a scale
of one to nine we go on a

[bart_lardner]: scale of one to five here in
canada you know those cows coming into that

[bart_lardner]: winter grazing system out of about three
out of a five on that us you

[bart_lardner]: know five out of a nine scale
and maintain body condition so your winter winter

[bart_lardner]: program and they're not going to lose
condition we don't want them thin coming into

[bart_lardner]: cabin and ideally you know you can
pelpate that body condition coming in the fault

[bart_lardner]: prior to that winter winter grazing program
and just make sure they're gong to maintain

[bart_lardner]: in that that winter grazing system is
going to provide adequate nutrients going forward

[john_campbell]: yes i think it's not really a
downside but it's one of the big issues

[john_campbell]: i think that i've seen in some
herds that try extended grazing is that they

[john_campbell]: can they can lose sight of body
condition because the cows aren't in the yard

[john_campbell]: quite as easily access

[bart_lardner]: correct

[john_campbell]: and and they have to watch that
carefully make sure that make sure they're maintaining

[john_campbell]: that not getting behind what

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: about what about mineral and take while
you're doing that part is that an issue

[john_campbell]: sometimes

[bart_lardner]: oh absolutely and then in my mind
the producers should strive to provide

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: additional trace mineral supplement year around but
specifically you know we want to insure that

[bart_lardner]: these calls are in first second third
trimeter pregnancy that there's adequate know micro micro

[bart_lardner]: mineral in take you know some of
our crops for example some of the warm

[bart_lardner]: season annuals for example corn may be
very high and phospheracence provision of a good

[bart_lardner]: clfostratio three three to one greater is
important and certainly you know those trace minds

[bart_lardner]: copper zinc and manganese need to be
there because there's other things that might impact

[bart_lardner]: not just the feed or the forge
the basic fords that the cows are grazing

[bart_lardner]: but possibly you know the water qual
ty and things like that

[john_campbell]: yes and you may need to monitor
intakes as well because if they're out on

[john_campbell]: extended grazing system not all cows are
necessarily going to be eating that free choice

[john_campbell]: mineral

[bart_lardner]: absolutely you know and it is it
is important and what we tend to do

[bart_lardner]: for sure you're going to you're going
a allocate you so many ounces three ounces

[bart_lardner]: four ounces head per day and you
know if you don't want to continuously fill

[bart_lardner]: up the mineral tub because there are
some cows that will have greater intakes and

[bart_lardner]: others you might put out you know
so much mineral save for a week and

[bart_lardner]: then if it's gone after four days
then you would only go back after seven

[bart_lardner]: days and fill it up again for
sure you know everybody is going to have

[bart_lardner]: that adequate intake but certainly managing monitor
in the same with body conditions scoring if

[bart_lardner]: there's some way for you walk through
your cows you know they're all haired up

[bart_lardner]: and so it is hard look at
fat cover but you know you're out there

[bart_lardner]: providing mineral or maybe checking your winter
watering system just take that time to walk

[bart_lardner]: through everybody uh and ensure that they're
not losing condition

[john_campbell]: that's good advice

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: i just want to go back to
the the snow as a water source thing

[john_campbell]: for one quick second before we move

[bart_lardner]: sure

[john_campbell]: i mean it's important to have a
up for that as well right part because

[john_campbell]: the snow may disappear or it may
ice over things like that and and so

[john_campbell]: you've got to have a plan be
if you're going to rely on that obviously

[john_campbell]: you have to train the cows and
all those other things that you mentioned but

[john_campbell]: you need to plan b as well

[bart_lardner]: well absolutely and now now that we're
talking about watering in the winter like i

[bart_lardner]: said make sure it's deep fluffy snow
crested over i like to suggest that that

[bart_lardner]: that's snow grazing area is set apart
from where the actual feed is being located

[bart_lardner]: because of the trampling soiling effect

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: you wanted to be fresh clean snow
um we really want to get away from

[bart_lardner]: from chopping holes in the ice john
and and you know too many times we've

[bart_lardner]: seen that that loss of animal falling
through the ice and so there are really

[bart_lardner]: good winter watering systems out there insulated
water troughs um you know that are heated

[bart_lardner]: by with thermal heating and you know
many times producers can look for different sub

[bart_lardner]: city programs through provincial or local

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: organization say

[john_campbell]: ye

[bart_lardner]: half to one third the cost

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: they really official and

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: so we're

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: in the business right now trying to
set those up at livestock for center of

[bart_lardner]: excellence because you know we're going to
show case extensive grazing we need to show

[bart_lardner]: case these these water points well

[john_campbell]: yeah there's lots of options there and
there's been several funding programs subsidy programs lately

[john_campbell]: to sort of allow producers to invest
in those and give them some money back

[john_campbell]: on that so that you know that's
something to explore in you area and i

[john_campbell]: think may be some of that's turning
over with a new cap program but

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: but there may be new programs coming
up soon to

[bart_lardner]: yeah they're all part of what they
call best management practices so b m p

[bart_lardner]: you know it's interesting i just met
with the ministry people here a couple of

[bart_lardner]: weeks ago all the extension folks forage
and livestock folks and that's his front and

[bart_lardner]: center was the conversation about extensive grazing
and trying to do it correctly trying to

[bart_lardner]: have minimal impact you know in terms
of loading and minimal impact on on run

[bart_lardner]: off and all these types of things
and so like i say do do your

[bart_lardner]: research do your home work and then
work with these these knowledgeable people that are

[bart_lardner]: out there before you set up that
extensive grazing system

[john_campbell]: right and you may have neighbors or
somebody else who's also been at it for

[john_campbell]: a while that may be able to
give you good vice as well as some

[john_campbell]: of the extension people to one of
the big benefits of the extensive grazing system

[john_campbell]: is that we have the cows out
there actually fertilizing these wintering sites with manure

[john_campbell]: rather than us having to collect it
and spread it and you've done some research

[john_campbell]: on forage yields

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: and on cattle wintering sites tell us
a little about those results

[bart_lardner]: you know i think in

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: the first work we did over twenty
years ago we set it

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: up actually we pushed the envelope pretty
hard on this one and we had pretty

[bart_lardner]: high you know stock density the per
acre if you want to call it that

[bart_lardner]: but we were looking at the advantages
or opportunities of manure nutrient deposition specifically nitrate

[bart_lardner]: and ammonium nitrogen and phosphorus only about
ten percent of the n is retained going

[bart_lardner]: through the ruminant dit esta system so
there's lots of excreetment and only about twenty

[bart_lardner]: per cent of the phosphorus and so
you know where those cattle are throughout the

[bart_lardner]: fallow winter months here's going to be
opportunity to leave those nutrients behind and for

[bart_lardner]: the subsequent crop the next year with
our first study we did have a very

[bart_lardner]: high stock density

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: eight hundred cow days per acre on
a bale graze system but we also looked

[bart_lardner]: at the op ortunity maybe comparing the
manure deposited by the animals out there on

[bart_lardner]: that extensive system compared to what a
producer might might move his dry lot manure

[bart_lardner]: with equipment say attract and manures better
and you know the big thing about some

[bart_lardner]: of these nutrients specifically nitrogen it's very
mobile at it leaches out vilatalize you know

[bart_lardner]: so not it's not a stationary nutrient
and so maybe in that dry lot drop

[bart_lardner]: pack a lot of that n is
gone after two or three or six months

[bart_lardner]: and maybe not there for that crop
or on that field you spread it with

[bart_lardner]: that with that tract or manure spread
or so the big thing we found was

[bart_lardner]: that when the cows were out there
we did so test preimpost so test levels

[bart_lardner]: of nitrogen of phosphorus and it was
really interesting to the two to three fold

[bart_lardner]: increase in nitrogen where those cows grade
is compared to where we put them anywhere

[bart_lardner]: on with equipment and so what we're
capturing there is the yeurnuran nitrogen so that's

[bart_lardner]: a huge opportunity and if that field
is going to be a pasture say with

[bart_lardner]: a lot of grass species that grass
loves in we did see you know two

[bart_lardner]: and a half three times increase in
bile mass where those cows wintered and it

[bart_lardner]: could be a swath graze program could
be a ball graze program so that is

[bart_lardner]: that's an advantage you know i did
i did mention we we had a pretty

[bart_lardner]: high stock density on that and so
we backed off and made some we felt

[bart_lardner]: you know reasonable implications on where producers
should have you know maybe two hundred fifty

[bart_lardner]: maybe three hundred codes or not that
eight hundred it was just too high a

[bart_lardner]: stock density soap and in my mind
it's just the right number of cows too

[bart_lardner]: few you're going to have too much
sorting and you're going to have too much

[bart_lardner]: wastage you just have to have the
right amount where they're god go in and

[bart_lardner]: and and you know there's not going
to be a challenge on intake everyays going

[bart_lardner]: get their share but they're goin na
you're trying to manage you know left over

[bart_lardner]: residue ah

[john_campbell]: and and talk about sort of the
importance of electric fencing

[bart_lardner]: ye

[john_campbell]: and some of those systems

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: to sort of

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: manage manage intake

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: how do you use that

[bart_lardner]: well you know and i do mentioned
this all the time when i talked to

[bart_lardner]: produce groups and that you have those
folks that really use electric fencing as a

[bart_lardner]: tool to manage utilizing tion and fresh
allocation and residue then there are some folks

[bart_lardner]: that just have an aversion to fencing
and that's that's fair not everybody likes to

[bart_lardner]: get out there but we've you know
in all of our work we've we've come

[bart_lardner]: to suggest maybe give a fresh allocation
say three to four days worth of new

[bart_lardner]: grazing it's kind of based on all
of the research we've done on those systems

[bart_lardner]: i mentioned previously and you know i
mean i've seen producers go seven days i've

[bart_lardner]: seen producers go three weeks and pros
and cons with that sometimes if they feel

[bart_lardner]: it's working great then adjust it we're
saying you know three to four days the

[bart_lardner]: cattle gonna get out there gonna get
adequate nutriteintake and then by day three the

[bart_lardner]: back end of the third day maybe
they're getting a little bit five or ten

[bart_lardner]: then we would like to see but
certainly that fresh application is coming again after

[bart_lardner]: that third day or fourth day also
the big thing we find to is you

[bart_lardner]: start out with that in mind then
when it gets colder you need to be

[bart_lardner]: managing a monitoring and so when it
gets to that minus twenty or twenty five

[bart_lardner]: with that wind chill factor then we're
going to have to move that fence quicker

[bart_lardner]: soon or more often and you know
so may be down to a two day

[bart_lardner]: move or something like that

[john_campbell]: those cows are definitely going to eat
more once once

[bart_lardner]: correct

[john_campbell]: the cold weather starts i've heard of
this term nutrient cycling so can

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: you tell me what that refers to
what what this nutrient cycling mean

[bart_lardner]: well you know it's it's interesting john
the and the other buzz word right now

[bart_lardner]: it's regenerative egg and in my mind
it goes back to lay farming from europe

[bart_lardner]: and that the beef cow or the
ruminant there a small room large large ruminants

[bart_lardner]: are great up cyclers and they're great
utilizing very low quality of high fiber for

[bart_lardner]: ages and so if there's some way
we can have that ruminant on that acre

[bart_lardner]: of land utilizing the basal forage and
as we just talked about depositing those manure

[bart_lardner]: nutrients from faces or from erin in
a recycling fashion you know and that's just

[bart_lardner]: that just reduces our in puts purchased
inorganic sources which are very very costly in

[bart_lardner]: twenty twenty two and so what's also
interesting is you know many of the cash

[bart_lardner]: cropping systems is just in high in
puts and in high exports off that same

[bart_lardner]: acer of land and we've done some
work looking at a utilizing crop residues whether

[bart_lardner]: it's you know a cash crop or
maybe an annual serial crop you know grazing

[bart_lardner]: the straw and chaff and following the
combine if you like and you know the

[bart_lardner]: benefits of the animal out there utilizing
that that residues from that cash crop and

[bart_lardner]: leaving those nutrients behind are certainly you
know very real

[john_campbell]: yeah one of the other systems that
we see a lot more and has become

[john_campbell]: more common in many parts of canada
over the last few years is corn

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: grazing what are some of the management
considerations that a producer has to take into

[john_campbell]: account they're considering using whole corn grazing

[bart_lardner]: well i guess with all of these
systems i first of all say feed test

[bart_lardner]: fed test feed test so know what
you're starting with you know if you're short

[bart_lardner]: on energy or protein then you need
to have to bring in a supplement um

[bart_lardner]: no corn is an interesting story you
know we first saw some of those producers

[bart_lardner]: growing at be over twenty years ago
now i always look south to nebraska north

[bart_lardner]: dakota and of course our manitoba friends

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: they were growing corn because they were
getting adequate heat units and so what the

[bart_lardner]: companies ave done as they've selected these
low heat unit varieties ones that will actually

[bart_lardner]: grow pretty good yield anywhere across the
western canada specifically and so we see corn

[bart_lardner]: growing and grand para berta out in
vanderhoof b c you

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: know all the way down to swift
current to catch so it is because we've

[bart_lardner]: gone from those early varieties of three
thousand heat units down to san ten hundred

[bart_lardner]: and so yeah

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: what are the advantages is because you
know the cost of land has gone up

[bart_lardner]: and if producers can grow increase bowl
mass on that acre of land compacompared to

[bart_lardner]: say your annual serials your barley or
oats obviously they're goin to look at corn

[bart_lardner]: now one thing we've seen with growing
corn you know especially to other other areas

[bart_lardner]: previous as they would take the grain
leave the stocks and so corn stock is

[bart_lardner]: actually a really good low cost way
of extending the grazing season for cows in

[bart_lardner]: first or maybe a second trymetrpregnancy you
do have to supplement if you're grating just

[bart_lardner]: those corn stacks now what we see
happening in the last fifteen plus years is

[bart_lardner]: that producers are adapting to whole plant
corn raising and so you know taking advantage

[bart_lardner]: of of that cob and the rest
of the corn structures and so there's some

[bart_lardner]: some some prose and cause cans with
doing that that producers need to be aware

[bart_lardner]: of

[john_campbell]: yeah so so corn grazing whole corn
grazing like that they really need to limit

[john_campbell]: the grazing area that's a that's a
key factor for that so that they consume

[john_campbell]: the entire plant and not just cobs
i take it

[bart_lardner]: absolutely you know

[john_campbell]: ye

[bart_lardner]: and i talk about this to our

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: neighbors or maybe to our eastern neighbors
and they go oh well you know we

[bart_lardner]: never really thought of that but you
know what our winters get colder here dry

[bart_lardner]: cold and so we might we may
be low on energy if they're just utilizing

[bart_lardner]: those crop residues so certainly grazing the
whole plant is opportunistic but cowsive selected and

[bart_lardner]: they will go out there and they
will sort off the cops first and so

[bart_lardner]: that's what we're saying sure with his
corn grazing system whole plant core grazing system

[bart_lardner]: only allocate that three day maybe four
day a fresh grazing because the first twenty

[bart_lardner]: four hours are gon t go out
there and sort those cobs is going to

[bart_lardner]: be a tremendous intake of starch and
so hence we see you know signs of

[bart_lardner]: sub cute ruminasadosis or digestive upset and
i've had you know veterinarians film from other

[bart_lardner]: parts of suscatcansaying bart i got a
producer they have forty acres of corn

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: and there's ten cows down and you
know five are not doing well and five

[bart_lardner]: with burned out ruins because they didn't
limit graze

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: and and they do got into erect
that way so we feel with that three

[bart_lardner]: to four days

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: they're gonna you know obviously take the
ice cream part of the plant first and

[bart_lardner]: then they two and three they'll have
to back raise and the stock and stover

[bart_lardner]: and have that fiber intake

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: so those digestive disturbances

[bart_lardner]: a

[john_campbell]: like grain overload or maybe less less
severe sub clinic lassidosis that that is

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: that is a concern what about naive
cows that have never grazed the stuff is

[john_campbell]: that that change things

[bart_lardner]: oh absolutely and you know i always
say any of these systems whether it's bell

[bart_lardner]: grazing or corn grazing the producer has
to get comfortable with it and the cows

[bart_lardner]: have to get comfortable with it especially
if they've been managed

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: previously save with a feed wagon and
equipment and all of a sudden we're turning

[bart_lardner]: them out into a field with a
whole plant standing corn and saying you know

[bart_lardner]: go at it and some of that
work we did atlantic and it was funny

[bart_lardner]: to see the naive cows they grazed
all the dead grass along the fence line

[bart_lardner]: and around the posts and then about
a day later somebody walked over and took

[bart_lardner]: a bite and go this isn't too
bad and so it was kind of a

[bart_lardner]: leader follower and then everybody else jumped
in and all of a sudden we're off

[bart_lardner]: to the race as everybody was grazing
corn so and i think you need to

[bart_lardner]: you have to learn how

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: far can you push our animals to
clean up uh you know certainly different varieties

[bart_lardner]: of corn will be more palatable than
others the big thing the last structure has

[bart_lardner]: left is typically the stocks and you
know sometimes there will be less stocks and

[bart_lardner]: more stocks depending on the corn variety
so i've seen cows just do a really

[bart_lardner]: good bang up job of maybe leaving
less than ten percent residue other fields with

[bart_lardner]: maybe thirty percent residue so a lot
of things to consider is that your your

[bart_lardner]: herd has to get used to this
tim going forward

[john_campbell]: so there's a lot more biamassk with
corn but there's more input

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: costs to do the economics still work
out part

[bart_lardner]: well you know i mean you're paying
for that technology you're paying for the round

[bart_lardner]: up ready variety um you know i've
seen producers that have used cows to graze

[bart_lardner]: it and they've had a bad year
and once bit for every shy what they

[bart_lardner]: will do then is they'll grow the
corn and put it up a savage and

[bart_lardner]: then they'll maybe come back and they'll
just graze the you know the stocks or

[bart_lardner]: something whatever is left after this silaging
so you know it i think the advantage

[bart_lardner]: of corn is still um

[john_campbell]: yes

[bart_lardner]: the three to four fold increase and
yield per acre come compared to maybe older

[bart_lardner]: barley but the other thing too is
that we've seen some of the early recommendations

[bart_lardner]: for mineral are sorry for fertility and
put change in fact i've seen producers you

[bart_lardner]: know gold corn on corn on corn
on corn for five or six years and

[bart_lardner]: they're not having to put any fertility
in because the manure is there for the

[bart_lardner]: next year's crop so that real advantage

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: well

[john_campbell]: right that's the big advantage of grazing
rather than silo to some extent

[bart_lardner]: correct

[john_campbell]: i guess if you grace the crop
residue though you're going to get some of

[john_campbell]: those benefits to

[bart_lardner]: the other thing i've seen too is
sometimes the

[john_campbell]: m

[bart_lardner]: corn will get ahead of you and
you don't want to go to black layer

[bart_lardner]: that's pretty mature grain then you'll get
into that we talked about digestive upset so

[bart_lardner]: now make sure it's that half milk
line of that first killing frost and you

[bart_lardner]: should be able to manage that fifty
percent starch and fifty percent fiber and take

[bart_lardner]: is kind of what i suggest where
they should be with your with your cows

[bart_lardner]: out there

[john_campbell]: okay and we talked about the you
know feed testing an episode one with

[bart_lardner]: hm

[john_campbell]: with john mc kinnon and

[bart_lardner]: m

[john_campbell]: obviously testing swash or grazing corn is
little trickier to

[bart_lardner]: yeah

[john_campbell]: sort of get a representative sample then
then a sort of conventional feed source that

[john_campbell]: we might have bales in a yard
or something like that

[bart_lardner]: yeah you know it is and always

[john_campbell]: yes

[bart_lardner]: i've always had that question to you
know what i suggest is if they want

[bart_lardner]: we always take if you want to
look at quality and yield you take seventeen

[bart_lardner]: and a half feet a row and
that's equivalent to one one thou seven acre

[bart_lardner]: or so um you know just go
out there and harvest at it is a

[bart_lardner]: lot of sample because it's more than
say just an annual zero crop and then

[bart_lardner]: you know you can chop it up
wood choppers awe seen people used to just

[bart_lardner]: get that sample to to you know
a form where you can submit it to

[bart_lardner]: a lab the

[john_campbell]: right

[bart_lardner]: other thing we've seen with wet years
is maybe evidence mold so that too has

[bart_lardner]: been a concern but you know certainly
we haven't seen that lately

[john_campbell]: no that's not been a problem at

[bart_lardner]: no

[john_campbell]: in western canada but

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: may be in other parts so maybe
just to wrap up do you want to

[john_campbell]: would you mind summarizing some of the
key points that the producers might

[bart_lardner]: oh

[john_campbell]: want to consider they're thinking about implementing
one of these extensive grazing strategies to extend

[john_campbell]: the grazing season

[bart_lardner]: sure absolutely i think the first thing
i always

[john_campbell]: oh

[bart_lardner]: tell them is start small so don't
go seeding the whole quarter section to that

[bart_lardner]: crop if it's corn or maybe you

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: setting out bales for a whole order
sex start small so maybe ten acres you

[bart_lardner]: know and and if it works for
you then you can slowly expand uh you

[bart_lardner]: know as i say it's going to
take a while to wean off using equipment

[bart_lardner]: to feed your cows and have the
cows walk to that field do your home

[bart_lardner]: work talk to your neighbors talk to
the you know the reps that are out

[bart_lardner]: there and your nutrition ist maybe choose
a site where it's going to benefit from

[bart_lardner]: the deposition of manure nutrient maybe anutrit
deficient no area on your farm and your

[bart_lardner]: ranch be sure there's good wind protection
that's that's huge today with with animal welfare

[bart_lardner]: and and thnkrethink

[john_campbell]: yeah

[bart_lardner]: your water source out there and you
know do your feed test for sure you

[bart_lardner]: know protein can get a little low
for cows close to calving especially on a

[bart_lardner]: corn crop whole plant corn crop so
you know make sure you do the fee

[bart_lardner]: test pay attention and protean you might
have to for sure um you know bring

[bart_lardner]: in a good mineral package as well
and and absolutely make sure you have planned

[bart_lardner]: be in your back pocket because mother
nature is not going to work with you

[bart_lardner]: every year

[john_campbell]: as good advice part thank you so
much for doing this today i'm sure we'll

[john_campbell]: have you back on to talk about
some of your other projects and and some

[john_campbell]: of your other interests really appreciate you
doing this thank you

[bart_lardner]: well thank you john thanks

[john_campbell]: a

[bart_lardner]: for having me

Extended grazing systems with Dr. Bart Lardner
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